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Folks--
--A friend highly recommended to me a translation of the Bhgavad Gita that included Abhinavagupta's commentary. I've never read the 'Gita', and am curious how the commentaries and translations differ. Can anyone offer insight? As I know it is an important text, and that there are different interpretations, I'd like to put it into context.
Thanks
chaz
--A friend highly recommended to me a translation of the Bhgavad Gita that included Abhinavagupta's commentary. I've never read the 'Gita', and am curious how the commentaries and translations differ. Can anyone offer insight? As I know it is an important text, and that there are different interpretations, I'd like to put it into context.
Thanks
chaz
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Sun, August 5, 2007 - 2:59 PMAbhinava's commentary on the Gita is something I've been meaning to get around to - the Isvarapratyabhijna-Vimarsini is sitting here waiting for me to crack it, and one of the reasons I am studying Sanskrit is because there are not, to my knowledge, any full translations of the Tantraloka (his Magnum Opus).
the way I understand it, Abhinava's commentary interprets the Gita with a strong Trika (his preferred branch of Kashmiri Shaivism) bias - which I am not opposed to, being that KS is a big influence on me theologically and as concerns cosmology. so he is obviously going to interpret it in light of Theistic Shaiva nondualism as opposed to say, the Vaishnava Bhakti views. the trouble with all Sanskrit texts is that without a grasp of the subtlties of the language one is unable to interpret exact meanings according to one's own intuition and understanding and has to rely on the translator in question. for example, there are many non-Gaudiyas who take issue with the translation of the Gita in the (probably most widespread edition here) translation by Prabhupada, "Bhagavad Gita As-It-Is". in the Lord Shiva tribe there was a very long discussion of Sanskrit semantics in that particular translation a while back.
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 11:58 PMhey, Charles --
I've read as many English translations as I can get my hands on, of the Gita.
my favorite is Paramahansa Yogananda's 2-volume set -- an UNBELIEVABLE work. his translation and commentaries -- omigawd. it's a masterpiece. seriously, about two pages at a time -- the shakti is overwhelming.
after he'd written the whole thing, at Twenty-Nine Palms, near Joshua Tree, CA, he turned to his secretary and said, quietly, "a new scripture has been written."
it's an epic work.
Alx -
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 6:59 AMof course, i am biased to bhagavad gita as it is (quel surprise eh?) being a gaudiya vaisnava, however i have recently finished reading a wonderful translation by b.v. tripurari swami and it is a lovely translation, i would recommend it to all. it is still from a bhakti viewpoint though. which IMO is what the gita is about :) -
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 2:05 PM(discounting that 4 types of yoga are referenced in the Gita? including Raja Yoga?)
why do you think the Gita is about bhakti?
Alx -
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 7:31 AMhi alx :)
although i am well aware of the yogas mentionned in the bhagavad gita (i have studied it in sanskrit since childhood), and they are important, bhakti is considered to be the rahasya, or secret knowledge of the gita. so i believe that the essence is of course bhakti. and y u ask? (i realize that my opinion is not shared by u or most here, i just like to chime in and share a different point of view even tho it may not be welcome :) the gita was once compared to me like a sandwich karma and jnana being important aspects, the bread if u will, but bhakti is the delicious filling that holds it all together :)
i believe the gita is about bhakti, not only because krsna talks extensively about it, and that its the best way to kno and love him. (again u asked, so im just sharing my opinion). i wont go into all kinds of cutting and pasting texts, although i believe that is important, it is not my style. aside from the obvious verses like 4.3., 6.47, 12.2, 18.55 wherein krsna speaks of bhakti.
however i will say that at the end of the gita in chapter 18 verse 65-66 , lord krsna summarizes his teachings thusly, and quite beautifully IMO, man mano bhava mad BHAKTO / mad yaji mam namaskuru..... and in the next verse sarva dharma parityagna / mam ekam saranam vraj.....
i dont kno if u are familiar with these verses, but to me they are the essence of the gita; i shall translate. always think of ME, become MY devotee. worship ME. do this and u shall certainly come to me, i promise u this because you are my very dear friend.
he goes on to say: abandon all varieties of religion, surrender unto ME, i will deliver u from sinful reaction, have no fear.
this is one of my personal favorites.
Bg 18.55:
One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.
these are some of the last verses of the gita:
Bg 18.67-68:
This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.
For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.
i hope that helps u understand y i feel the gita is about bhakti alx :) again, i am just sharing my personal opinion and tradition because i was asked. so i hope its not met with anger or harsh words :)
with love,
manu dasa -
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 11:53 AMhey, Manu --
why would anyone be angry about your interpretation of the Gita?
(not sure that makes any sense at all -- it's your interpretation, and your heart's yearning and comfort, why would anyone react in a weird way to that?)
it's interesting to me that the Gita is so rich that everyone can find some resonance within it, no matter where they're at, or what level of spiritual maturity (or none) they bring to it when they read it.
some people hear that Karma Yoga is the big deal, and of course their nature is inclined that way anyway, so off they go, living a life of Karma Yoga, and receiving the beautiful results from that. others hear the Bhakti way and go deeply into their relationship with god through that doorway. and so on.
it's really beautiful, and shows the generosity of the divine; how it makes itself available to every type of soul character, so that each one can find his way back to god through whatever doorway is appropriate for that particular class of soul.
because of that, I find it hard to parse the Gita and say, emphatically, "this way is the BEST way for everyone, according to the Gita" -- because all souls are a little different in their functioning in this illusion world. but that's just me.
I do agree with you, btw, about the importance of Bhakti -- my personal experience is that no one attains much, spiritually, until they are involved in the love affair with the divine. no matter how much sadhana one does, how much gyan one receives, or how much seva one does, without a loving heart and a dedication to the Source behind the illusion -- what use is it?
it's also my observation that Krishna's character, in particular, and more generally about the Vishnu avataras, is that the only way to win them is through a pure open heart.
in other times, this was perhaps less challenging for humanity to achieve -- in less dense ages than Kali Yuga, where everything is hardened and concretized into 'me and mine', it was easier for people to stay steadfast in their love of, and romance with, god.
in this time cycle, though, -- and I'm not saying anything against the Gita, Krishna, Bhakti, etc., so please don't misunderstand! -- there are other ways to achieve god and develop that inner romance that involve other doorways.
Shiva, for example, is less demanding up front -- to win him only requires austerities (dedicated meditation -- japa) -- which explains why all the demons worship him and receive his darshan/boons. (I would venture, cautiously, to suggest that in this Kali Yuga, most of us behave more like the asuras, or rakshasas, the demon characters -- embodying selfishness, greed, power lust, ignorance, egoism -- than we do the more refined, divine qualities necessary for embodying real Bhakti.)
my own personal feeling is that what is needed in this age is more Shakti, ultimately combined with real Bhakti, to make a difference in the way this planet is organized and how people treat one another, and the god within themselves. I think it's harder to reach Shakti through Bhakti -- maybe it's easier to jump first to Shakti and THEN, realizing the immensity of the depth of god's capacity and love for all of us, go back and pick up the Bhakti again.
thanks for explaining a bit more in depth about how the Gita resonates with you, and why it represents the Bhakti way most of all.
*grinning*
Alx
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 8:08 AMhey alx :)
welll, the reason i said that was because i have met with much opposition and anger in the past when sharing aspects of my tradition, regardless of the fact that i am not one who will tell others this path is best for them, just best for me :) at any rate, we vaisnavas often get a bad rap and its sometimes very hurtful, as i find that often i am met with the very fanatical and prejudiced attitudes that we are accused of, just from the other side of the pendulum (i.e. another school of sanatana dharma) .so for me it was important to point out that i didnt want to start a war, or have anyone be offensive just for sharing my tradition. i would also point out that its not "my" interpretation of the gita per se, but that of all brahma madhva gaudiya vaisnavas, the disciplic succesion / parampara we belong to :)
and i agree with u on many of the lovely things u mentionned that the beauty of the divine is to reveal him / herself to those how they desire and it fullfils them in their particular way and works best for them.
i personally think that shakti is obtainable thru bhakti, it comes with the practice and purity. srila prabhupada taught us that purity is the force. and indeed without a loving heart, what good is all the jnana? it remains a static principle.
i would also tend to agree about what u said with regards to kali yuga and being somewhat close to demons hehe, or their qualities like egoism, lust, ignorance and selfishness. however i would add that i think there is an innate goodness in all of us (even the demons-cuz in shastra even they are devotees to an extent) replete with all the refined and divine qualities of devotion. i feel that thru bhakti the good and brahminical qualities arise and come to the surface :) at least this is my experience.
with love,
manu
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 4:18 PMHi Chaz,
I am new to this tribe. You have asked a great question. The study of gItA is a tradition in its own right. I doubt if I can hardly do justice to it in an Internet post. However, a couple of points to consider.
gItA is not a book per se but a genre. There are quite a few gItA-s, according to the major traditions/religions of Hinduism. The most commonly known and widely read gItA is the bhagavad gItA which is what you refer to ( the default gItA is usually the bhagavad gItA as it is the most popular gItA text ). However, there are quite a few other gItA-s - shiva gItA, devi gItA, ribhu gItA, ashtAvakAra gItA, guru gItA etc.
One of the commenters did get it right about bhagavad gItA being primarily about bhakti. I would agree ( although I tend towards
Shaivite non-dualism myself ). The bhagavad gItA is primarily a Vaishnava devotional text - nevertheless, non-Vaishnavas have often commented on its philosophy. Shankara, the famous advaita vedAnta exponent wrote a learned commentary ( one which most
Vaishnavas vehemently disagree with ). Another famous advaitin wrote guddhArtha dIpikA ( 'An Illuminative treatise on the meaning of the gita' ). Both of these are commentaries on the bhagavad gItA from the advaita vedAnta perspective ( which is usually associated with the
smArthA tradition of Hinduism ).
The most famous Shaivite interpretation of the bhagavad gItA is the one by Abhinavagupta. You are abslutely right in stating that Abhinavagupta attempts to give a non-dual Shaivite gloss on what is essentially a Vaishnava bhakti text. Such attempts ( trying to win over adherents of other schools by showing that their texts tend to agree with one's own philosophical system ) were quite common in classical India. Overall, I would say that Abhinavagupta emphasizes that Vaishnava bhakti is not incompatible with Trika philosophy and one can just as earnestly be a devotee of the Goddess and still be faithful to the teachings of Krishna.
As to whether Abhinavagupta's point of view will be acceptable to mainstream Vaishnavas - I guess not. Most Vaishnavas might take exception to a non-Vaishnava attempting to explain a central Vaishnava text in light of a non-Vaishnava philosophy ( Trika Shaivism ).
Also, Abhinavagupta's commentary on the bhagavad gItA may not be the best introduction to understanding Trika Shaivism. For a general introduction, I would highly recommed 'Kashmir Saivism' by Kamalakar Mishra.
Warm Regards,
~V -
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 9:13 PM>>Also, Abhinavagupta's commentary on the bhagavad gItA may not be the best introduction to understanding Trika Shaivism. For a general introduction, I would highly recommed 'Kashmir Saivism' by Kamalakar Mishra.
hehe. Trika and Abhinava are some deep subjects. I gave my sister who is Shakta oriented a book on Abhinava and said, "this is going to make your head hurt, so just be prepared for that" hehe! she is quite bright as well, it is not a matter of intelligence - Abhinava was simply a genius and the theology of KS is on a whole other level.
(I was going to suggest that you join the KS tribe but I see that you already have. cool.)
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 1:38 PMhey, Ven --
welcome to Goddessence, so nice to have you here! thanks for reminding us there are many 'gitas' in the Vedic tradition. my own master calls the Baghavad Gita the "message" (rather than "gita" being, as it's usually translated, 'song') of god.
I got really intrigued by your mentioning Adi Shankara's Commentary on the Bhagavad Gita and am anxious to read it. he is a cornerstone of my tradition and everything about his life and teachings blows me away.
while searching for excerpts from his Gita commentary, I found these beautiful statements from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, from HIS introduction to his commentaries on the first 6 chapters of the B.G. and thought it was worth sharing. he underscores nicely the unifying clarity that Shankara brings to exemplifying the message of the B.G. :
"It has been the misfortune of every teacher that, while he speaks from his level of consciousness, his followers can only receive his message on their level; and the gulf between the teaching and understanding grows wider with time.
The teaching of right action without due emphasis on the primary necessity of realization of Being is like building a wall without a foundation. It sways with the wind and collapses before long. Within three or four hundred years all real connection between the essential teachings of Lord Buddha and the daily life of His followers had disappeared. Insight into the principle of the integrated life was again lost. Having forgotten the prime importance of realizing Being, society became immersed once more in the superficialities of life.
Nature will not allow humanity to be deprived of the vision of Reality for very long. A wave of revival brought Shankara to re-establish the basis of life and renew human understanding. Shankara restored the wisdom of the Absolute and established It in the daily life of the people, strengthening the fields of thought and action by the power of Being. He brought the message of fulfilment through direct realization of transcendental Being in the state of Self-consciousness, which is the basis of all good in life.
Shankara’s emphasis on Self-realization stems from the eternal philosophy of the integrated life expressed by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita when He asks Arjuna first to ‘be without the three Gunas’ and then to perform actions while thus established in Being That all men should at all times live the bliss-consciousness of absolute Being, and that they should live the state of fulfilment in God Consciousness throughout all thought, speech, and action; this is the essence of Shankara’s message, as it is the essence of Lord Krishna’s and of the entire Vedic Philosophy.
The greatest blessing that Shankara’s teaching has offered to the world is the principle of fullness of intellectual and emotional development in the state of enlightenment, based on transcendental pure consciousness, in which the heart is so pure as to be able to flow and overflow with waves of universal love and devotion to God, while the mind is so refined as to enjoy awareness of the divine nature as separate from the world of action.
The spontaneous expressions of Shankara’s mind and heart in this state of freedom and fulfilment have been a source of inspiration both to those who live by the heart and those who live by the mind. His consciousness exemplified the highest state of human development; his heart expressed supreme transcendental devotion to God (Para Bhakti, while his mind expressed awareness of the Self as separate from the field of action (Gyan). This it was that led Shankara’s speech to flow into ecstasies of devotion and at the same time into clear expressions of knowledge, the dry and hard-headed truths concerning divine nature as detached from the world. These are the two aspects of the living reality of a life in complete fulfilment.
Shankara not only revived the wisdom of integrated life and made it popular in his day, but also established four principal seats of learning in four corners of India to keep his teaching pure and to ensure that it would be propagated in its entirety generation after generation. For many centuries his teaching remained alive in his followers, who lived the ideal state of knowledge with devotion (Gyan and Bhakti). But in spite of all his foresight and endeavours, Shankara’s message inevitably suffered with time the same misfortunes as those of the other great teachers.
If the occupants of a house forget the foundations, it is because the foundations lie underground, hidden from view. It is no surprise that Being was lost to view, for It lies in the transcendental field of life.
The state of Reality, as described by the enlightened, cannot become a path for the seeker, any more than the description of a destination can replace the road that leads to it. When the truth that Being forms the basis of the state of enlightenment became obscured, Shankara’s statements about the nature of the goal were mistaken for the path to realization.
This misunderstanding was increased by the very beauty of Shankara’s eloquence. His expressions of deep devotion made in the state of complete surrender and oneness with God, and his intellectual clarifications made in the state of awareness of the divine nature, are both so full and complete in themselves that, seen from the ordinary level of consciousness, they appeared to present two independent paths to enlightenment: the path of knowledge and the path of devotion."
I really appreciate that Shankara appeared to espouse more of what I ascribe to -- that the gyan AND the bhakti are super-important in terms of enlightenment, both together as levers that operate in tandem, not one over the other.
Alx
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 2:09 PMand a little more from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi on the same subject:
"In our review of the rise and fall of Truth, we must not lose sight of the great impact that Shankara produced on Indian life. It was the perfection of his presentation that caused Shankara’s teaching to be accepted as the core of Vedic Wisdom and placed it at the centre of Indian culture. It became so inseparable from the Indian way of life that when, in course of time, this teaching lost its universal character and came to be interpreted as for the recluse order alone, the whole basis of Indian culture also began to be considered in terms of the recluse way of life, founded on renunciation and detachment.
When this detached view of life became accepted as the basis of Vedic Wisdom, the wholeness of life and fulfilment was lost. This error of understanding has dominated Indian culture for centuries and has turned the principle of life upside down. Life on the basis of detachment! This is a complete distortion of Indian philosophy. It has not only destroyed the path of realization but has led the seekers of Truth continuously astray. Indeed it has left them without the possibility of ever finding the goal.
Not only was the path to enlightenment lost, but the entire art of living disappeared in the clouds of ignorance which obscured every phase of life. Even religion became blind to itself. Instead of directly helping people to gain God Consciousness and act rightly on that basis, religious preachers began to teach that right action is in itself a way to purification and thereby to God Consciousness.
Without Being, confusion of cause and effect invaded every field of understanding. It captured even the most practical field of the philosophy of Yoga. Karma Yoga (attainment of Union by way of action) began to be understood as based on Karma (action), whereas its basis is Yoga, Union, Transcendental Consciousness. The founder of the Yoga philosophy, Patanjali, was himself misinterpreted and the order of stages on his eightfold path reversed. The practice of Yoga was understood to start with Yama, Niyama, and so on (the secular virtues), whereas in reality it should begin with Samadhi. Samadhi cannot be gained by the practice of Yama, Niyama, and so on. Proficiency in the virtues can only be gained by repeated experiences of Samadhi. It was because the effect was mistaken for the cause that this great philosophy of life became distorted and the path to Samadhi was blocked.
With the loss of insight into Yoga, the other five classical systems of Indian philosophy lost their power. They remained on the theoretical level of knowledge, for it is through Yoga alone that knowledge steps into practical life.
Thus we find that all fields of religion and philosophy have been misunderstood and wrongly interpreted for many centuries past. This has blocked the path to the fullest development of heart and mind, so precisely revived by Shankara.
Interpretations of the Bhagavad-Gita and other Indian scriptures are now so full of the idea of renunciation that they are regarded with distrust by practical men in every part of the world. Many Western universities hesitate to teach Indian philosophy for this reason. The responsibility for this loss of Truth to the whole world lies with the interpretations of Shankara’s teaching; missing the essence of his wisdom, they have bean unable to save the world from falling ever deeper into ignorance and suffering."
I really appreciate this. everything that's been put in front of me, as a spiritual student in this world, has argued against the detached view, stance, and renunciant life (on a superficial level) in relation to this creation and its suffering.
that the goal is often mistaken for the path.... a lot of food for thought.
Alx -
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Thu, August 16, 2007 - 1:04 AMFascinating. Thank you so much, Alx!
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Re: Abhinavagupta
Thu, August 16, 2007 - 1:03 AMThanks so much for the insight. My own teacher is KS, and our school is called the Trika Institute. Now I understand why this translation in particular was recommended.
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