hi Saul.

Actually that was not really where I was heading with the Tree/chakra thing. Actually there aren't really going to be any "true" correlations between the tree and the chakras because they are very different systems of energy running through/overlaying the body. It is interesting to play with them because they do feel so SO very different in nature, but that is because they have different purposes in the body, like the circulatory system and the respiratory system. The only sephiroth that kind of similarly overlap physically on the body are probably Yesod (near root), Tiphereth (near heart)...and that's probably it. Kether is above the head.

My original question was more about if a different group of people brought through the understandings and teachings of the chakras would Sanskrit still be the language of choice and power for them.

Shawn

Sorry, I don't know what the source of your information is, Alx, but as per the Puranas, Yama is a Deva (demi-God), not a Rudra. Rudra/Shiva is equivalent to Parabrahman, whereas Devas are at the level of Indra, Prajapati etc.

Yama is lower in the heirarchy, below Shiva (who, of course, is the Absolute). Read the story of Markandeya, in which Shiva kicks Yama's butt :p


www.advaita-vedanta.org/series...top.htm


And Rudra *is* the "original" Vedic Shiva. There are no "Rudras of Shiva"; technically only forms of Rudra - 11 in all. Hanuman is considered a Rudra Avatar.



-- Antarananda.

Ah, I was waiting to hear from you, Phillip. Thanks!

hey, Shawn!

I can't possibly answer about 'was India the only place JC got his training' since I wasn't there, that I recall. (grinning)

I know a lot of teachings say a lot of different things about him. some are, I'm sure, true and even verifiable (ie, are there documents remaining?) -- some are myth or legend -- and still others may just be wishful thinking.

my understanding -- again, not at all my prejudice, and I'm not at all attached to the opinion one way or another -- is that it all sprang from India, yes. that it was one of the main ancient centers of spiritual mechanisms and understanding -- even before this current yuga. that most of what is known, today, spiritually, dates back to those ancient teachings of India and how they spread to every culture on this planet (including ancient Egypt, Palestine, the Mayan and Incan civilizations and other places no longer existing like Atlantis, etc.)

and no, it doesn't mean that the Hebrew fire letters aren't powerful. god doesn't have any one face or prayer, in this planet -- that is the greatness of the divine, that it appears in whatever form is comprehensible to a given culture in a given state of evolution. all traditions have mystic branches, and the folks following those mystic teachings with sincerity ultimately get the enlightenment that is universal.

is Jesus' training in India the root of his training -- it's a great question, I wish I knew a true answer to this in terms of all the different stuff he learned, esp as a young boy. of course he came from exceptional people, divine souls, and the Essene culture of his time was steeped in ancient mysticism. I do know that his mother knew a thing or two about ancient Vedic technology.

in terms of whether Jesus' early teachings were Kabbalistic or something else (I strongly favor the 'something else' position), I think we'll know when we know, exactly. there are those beings on this planet who are intimately familiar with the details of Jesus' life, training, actions and so on -- a lot of stuff that has been kept hidden for milleniae -- when that news comes out I'm sure we'll all be surprised in a dozen different directions.

about the root of Christ's training -- there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the ancient Vedic (Indian) spiritual technology was his major training and contribution, also, to this planet and its evolution. he went to India to learn the mechanisms, in order to implement his already amazing soul capacity.

but, as I said, this is just my understanding based on what I've seen, first-hand, in India, and learned there, having lived in places where He also lived.

I'm utterly unattached to my opinion at this point in time: I believe that the truth will be revealed, and relatively soon, and then each of us can, with access to deep information, form our own opinions accordingly.

satya jaya te.

Alx

I have heard it claimed that 'Yogic' techniques were 'seeded' on ALL the continents. It's just that India has had a relatively stable and un-interrupted cultural legacy. This is where the techniques thrived and were passed down. There is no question that similar practices did exist in other places but died out or remain secret.

Hm, well as I am completely inexperienced on this count, I bow to your wisdom.

As for the 'beyond description', perhaps I ought to explain: Shiva is also beyond description, yet many claim to have seen him. My teacher describes chakras less as 'things' than as apertures into Shushumna, the central channel, and one's true nature. It is possible to be both manifest and beyond description? I think so!

Me, I'm still learning and exploring, as you know. So all this discussion is like smelling a dinner cooking in the kitchen. Something delicious I haven't yet tasted. Smelling something, you think you know what it'll taste like, but sometimes it's a surprise. I'm interested in all the different views, but maintaining an open mind for whatever actually happens.

"my belief is that they are available, visibly, to those who have an open third eye -- in other words, to people who aren't relying on the strictly visual sense, any more, for input. subtle sight, and all that, because it's really being able to see the subtle body."

That's exactly right. As the poet Blake put it, we are deceived when we "see with not through the eye" - it seems that these bodies are *just* physical organisms. Look with the inner vision, and you see something else again - the body of light, of prana, of the subtle life force. And the chakras - these vortices of energy along the central channel - are quite apparent. You don't have to be a yogi - a great many people are natural clairvoyants, or get opened up to it some other way. We all have the capacity, innately, because its the truth of who we are.

Philip's mention of a hidden tradition in the West is fascinating, and I can well believe it. The West has always had its mystics and visionaries, and how could they not have noticed the "interior stars"? I can understand the need for keeping it under wraps - even in India, there is much suspicion and fear of Tantric yoga. But we've had a very different cultural context than India - for a terribly long time, speaking openly about such things could cause you to be imprisoned or put to death. It is STILL that way in some places. I am glad we have arrived at a time when all this can be brought into open view.