the role of skepticism in spirituality

topic posted Mon, June 23, 2008 - 10:12 PM by  offlineAlx
hi, everybody -- !

jeez, it feels like forever since I've started any thread here.

I've been thinking a lot about healthy skepticism when it comes to spirituality -- especially when evaluating a teacher or a path or a set of teachings. how do you know what's right for you, what isn't right, and whether or not something is true?

it seems to me that unless we have the unfettered chance to ask many questions and weigh the responses we receive in a reasonable way, we're either capable of being ridiculously gullible or of continuing along a given path but being consumed, inside, by huge doubts.

it also says something about faith versus doubt -- where is faith important? where is doubt a total monkeywrench? when does healthy skepticism take a turn for the worse, into perpetual skepticism and cynicism, closed-heartedness and suffering?

what's been the role of skepticism in your spiritual quest or practice?

Alx
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Alx
online Alx
  • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

    Tue, June 24, 2008 - 6:02 PM
    I'm not sure I have been on a spiritual quest, ever. I have been a skeptic and sometimes cynic, observer, communicator, someone who delights in the mystery, and often the one who often points out 'the emperor has no clothes'. stating the criteria I used to determine that (if anyone is listening at all they don't get that far, I talk to myself a lot)

    I love people and animals, I love this planet, I find it difficult to understand the society I live in, especially the authority figures we have been presented with. I have seen skeptics and cynics that were entrenched in closed minded circular thinking and most of the time I don't fit that pattern as I love to change my mind about everything. :) Healthy skepticism is when you don't need what people are selling, you might want something someone is selling but you never need it.

    The trap is thinking someone else has to 'save' you, give you what you need or 'teach' you something you can't figure out on your own; the other end of that trap is thinking no one has anything to offer you worth accepting. The best any of us can ever do is strive for balance between the two.
  • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

    Wed, June 25, 2008 - 8:31 AM
    Hi, Alx. I read your question and sort of wanted to write a philosophical reply (“good advice on healthy skepticism” or some such), but then have come down to a personal or psychological expression. IOW, the way it works in MY head & heart.

    Certain things prove themselves to me. OTOH, some practices or methods might strike me as shallow and without much potential (though some might even be fun), and I’d not be too attracted to those. Some might strike me as perhaps holding the potential for power, but might also feel dark (sinister or treacherous). No, thanks. And some might beckon as full of potential for learning, unfoldment, growth – and empowerment in a benevolent form. And it’s these latter that I find myself approaching. Attractiveness, my readiness, intuition… all these play a role.

    As a kid, I was always interested in spirituality and psychic phenomena. I toyed with psychokinesis in the form of cloud dispersal when I was about 11 or 12. So the influence of mind on matter was demonstrated (albeit in a limited way) for me. Then I went through a mid-teens phase where I read a lot about “religions of the world” and wound up getting attracted to some of the philosophies of East and South Asia. So all this was part of the “open-minded” aspect.

    I explored dream-journal work for about a year during one period of my life. I found that not only did my dreams become more interesting and meaningful, I also experienced more in the way of precognition and synchronicity.

    I’ve had a lot of experience with meditation practice. The nature and value of at least certain approaches in meditation have been revealed to me in my experience, to a certain degree.

    And, on another hand, another experience of psychokinesis just a year or so ago keeps the mind/matter subject fresh: I was alone drinking some coffee on my couch one morning, and the couch is not far from where a guitar was hanging, by its strap, on the wall. And a single note from one of the strings sounded, with no one (at least no human or pet animal) anywhere near the guitar! It was a clear note that sounded as though it had been deliberately plucked.

    When I signed up for training in Reiki seven years ago, I did so for two main reasons: 1) I was mending from a broken leg; 2) I wanted to be involved energetically in my own health and perhaps empowered to assist other people. I took the training and the attunement, was truly astonished by the leap forward in my psychological well-being, with several rather amazing physical-health benefits very soon to follow. The psychological aspect involved a lot of what people call “heart values,” as well positive mood stabilization, self-image improvement, etc. So again: I ‘dip a foot in’ and have something proven to me!

    When something positive pans out in my life, I regard it gratefully as a blessing from Life. But that's after the fact...

    Namaste,
    Tanemon
    • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

      Fri, June 27, 2008 - 6:39 PM
      hi, Tanemon, and all --

      *grinning* I'm packing for Yet Another Trip to India.... via Paris, leading a meditation tour, so I've been just a wee busy, sorry.

      I like to hear what everyone has to offer before I jump in...

      I was struck by this; "Attractiveness, my readiness, intuition… all these play a role." from Tanemon -- and it leaped out at me how none of those are really cognitive functions. ie, they're all operating at a deeper level of awareness than just the mind. where does an assessment of 'readiness,' for example, come from? or the energetic hit about how attractive something is or isn't -- what is it attractive TO? and then, intuition, a literal no-brainer.

      what I'm getting at -- even though my mind may make up all kinds of arbitrary judgments or reasons why something seems right or not, my inner-most self, my heart, or even my soul (I would say), DOES know what's right -- often against my 'better judgment' -- my more superficial assessing mind, or even my skeptical mind.

      I think that's super-interesting. what do you think?

      and, yes, Samuel, I think the point is well-taken about the mystery of gurus or spiritual figures versus the rational approach to them. I think that's another case of 'follow your heart' when presented with something that feels really dissonant, or off, in a spiritual character. for myself, I don't mind the oddities or the seeming complexes that spring up around the saints -- have been around it long enough, I guess, to be able to discern how much is real and how much is just plain silly or hero-worship, or worse.

      I'm fortunate, too, I think, in that I have a spiritual master teacher who could give a rat's ass about being worshiped or acclaimed -- to him, that's a complete nonsense and an abrogation of our own internal divinity, worshiping someone outside ourselves. it's like an insult to the greatness of our own souls.

      I think what drew me to the spiritual path I follow now was its no-nonsense, ultimately practical approach to healing and spiritual enlightenment. a kind of nuts-and-bolts and no wasted anything, no wasted effort, no wasted energy, no fawning or celebrity status for anyone, just hard work and a lot of egoism-deconstruction being replaced with divine grace.

      as a healthy skeptic, myself, I appreciate this approach-- it spoke to me in a way that really moved my heart, probably more than any other angle of spiritual study or experience could have.

      *grinning* but then, I was a tough coconut. needed a real sledgehammer to break open the shell and be able to receive certain things.

      Alx
      • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

        Mon, June 30, 2008 - 9:24 PM
        Alx wrote: " but then, I was a tough coconut. needed a real sledgehammer to break open the shell and be able to receive certain things."

        What do you think it was that made you a tough coconuit? I mean, why did you say that?

        What had you explored before (I know there was Reiki)? And what had you declined to explore or accept before?


        Tanemon
        • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

          Tue, July 1, 2008 - 12:51 AM
          hi, Tanemon, you asked what made me 'a tough coconut.'

          well, I was a huge skeptic in all things 'spiritual' and I didn't believe in god, necessarily. I thought gurus were charlatans and scam artists, and that people in general were interested in religion or spiritual stuff as a crutch, because they were weak and couldn't get their lives together. *grinning* seriously -- I was a very uninterested person to hook up with a guru of any kind.

          I'd been burned by organized religion in interesting ways, and was hugely judgmental, suspicious, angry, with an over-active mind that wanted to pick everything apart and analyze it all rationally, and find whatever holes were there in the theory, the belief, the system.

          I was raised by scientific parents -- dad was a surgeon, mom was a nurse -- who were at best agnostic and had a horror of organized religions in general and some specific ones for specific reasons.

          born and raised in hard-headed no bullshit farming country in Missouri - the 'show me state'! -- I was stubborn as a Missouri mule and my stance about all things woo-woo was really, "you've got to show me, otherwise no way am I going to believe a word you're saying is true."

          stuff like that. I just wasn't starry-eyed, or credulous, or ready to swallow any spiritual anything at all unless it was demonstrated to me that it really works, that it's at all real.

          what made me this way? I would have to say, honestly, huge heartbreak. heartbreak with god, heartbreak with life, extreme trauma as a young person and teenager -- a kind of being ostracized at every turn for being 'different', and an extreme resignation to just surviving whatever I'd suffered in my life.

          I think heartbreak, on an epic and continual scale, wore down my inner brightness and left me suspicious, untrusting, cynical, skeptical, doubting and depressed. and incredibly fearful.

          you asked what I had declined to explore or accept, before......

          oh, let's see -- despite many invitations, I refused to move to California because I thought it was populated by nuts and lunatics, a lot of New Agey hocus-pocus cult-following, nuts and flakes granola people waving crystals around and chanting "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo"......

          so -- on the list of stuff I rejected was crystals, channels, psychics, holistic healing, vegetarianism, meditation (kind of)... really, anything 'spiritual' or that referred to energy. *grinning*

          the first time I ate Indian food, in New York City, when I was 17 years old, I had a massive anxiety attack -- I mean, epic. huge. the room was spinning, the scents from the kitchen (even before the meal showed up) was freaking me out, I was nauseated, stomach churning, I thought I was going to pass out.

          so anything that had to do with India was pretty much on my list of Avoidance Items as well.

          it's a total cosmic joke on me, I'd have to say.

          all of this carefully got worn down by living in California and realizing, bit by bit, that some things were for real. acupuncture worked, for example, and so did the herbs prescribed by Chinese doctors..... meditation wasn't all bad and I developed a taste for Indian food... the first time I did yoga with a friend, I had an enlightenment experience in Shavasana..... that kinda freaked me out.... trauma and anxiety (and post-traumatic stress disorder from my youth) led me to 12-step programs, where I found a real sense of a spiritual inkling of possibility (even though I was still agnostic and wouldn't say the word "god" for years!)......

          then I moved to Northern California and somewhere in the midst of all that, started reading books on yogic spirituality, and I met Jack Schwarz, a Western yogi who'd gotten enlightened at Auschwitz and had supernatural abilities..... and he started teaching me even though I couldn't exactly figure out why I was his student.... I didn't go looking for a teacher, I guess the right one for me just appeared....

          somewhere in there, I started meditating in a Zen center. I think that saved my life, actually.... at the time I just knew I needed it..... but then I started having experiences there, too.......

          and then Reiki really blew my mind and heart open. I'd been a kind of inadvertent, accidental healer -- I'd do massage for people and their whole emotional body would release and all kinds of healings and cathartic stuff would happen... but Reiki escalated that, so I was really happy to practice as a Reiki healer.

          it wasn't very long after all that had unwound that I met Sri Kaleshwar in 1999 and had supernatural experiences the first time I heard his name -- so..... a lot of steps this way and that way, melting a lot of my belief systems, healing my heart, smoothing out the traumas... and giving glimpses of the divine along the whole journey.

          to say it's been a wild ride would be the understatement of the century.

          Alx






  • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

    Wed, June 25, 2008 - 6:19 PM
    Well I believe too many people are taken as saints just because they say they are or claim to be enlightened . I go by how i feel energetically about the person. I think one of the mistakes i've made in the past is to deny or not deal with doubts or inconsistancies in how an alleged master actually acts . when someone is touted always for their humility but thiee entire life is a constant whirl of flashbulbs, video recordings and every moment is an opportunity for a press interview to me that is incongruent. when someone consults an enlightened being about wether to treat there cancer with continued chemo or look for holistic alternatives and the guru's answer is "think carefully and then proceed" or" you have my blessing" or" consult your astrologer" all of those are non helpful answers to someone who may have traveled great distance and incurred expense to get the advice of a master. Things like that that i witnessed i would ignore or justify by telling myself that no one could really understand why a higher being does what they do. I guess what i've learned is if it feels like something is wrong it probably is. or at the very least the issues should be explored. It really takes discernment.
  • Re: the role of skepticism in spirituality

    Fri, July 4, 2008 - 12:40 PM
    I feel that a certian amount of skepticism is healthy. We were given the ability to question authority for a reason, hehehe.

    There is a book by Jill Bolte Taylor Ph.D. called "My Stroke of Insight" and it really gave me a deeper appreciation of the brain and how it works in relationhip to spirituality.

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