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The development of conflict in spirituality can be seen a result of progress, don't you think?. Whenever an action is performed it creates an impression, or potential reaction, in the mind. This is called samskara – the distortion of mind waiting for expression. In order to express these samskaras, different experiences (some pleasurable and others painful) will have to be encountered, depending on the samskaras to be expressed. But regardless of whether the experiences are pleasurable or painful, from a spiritual viewpoint they are always desirable because they facilitate the exhaustion of one's samskaras – hence the purification of mind and consequent increased desire for cosmic merger. So obstacles and hardship are considered beneficial on the spiritual path. For the optimal progress, therefore, spiritual practice could be chosen to be combined with the embrace of some worldly clashes and struggles and transmuted into some kind of creativity or even service. It's one form of transmuting conflict into something positive besides inner practice and expands the love one feels into real life.
People often forget that the rise of the kundalini sets off samskaras to be exhausted? What do you think?
How do you embrace the ups and downs with an attitute of total balance and positivity at all times? I honestly have hardly seen any spiritualist in a total balanced state without any fluctuations. Therefore I wonder, what are your methods to surrender the results of your thoughts and deeds, creating the most positive outcome at all times.
Is it not a positive thing to try put one lesson into positive action rather than to hear many lessons and ideas of how one is not evolved enough to handle difficulties?I often hear words such as, he or she does so many years of practice and still has this or that afflictions!" sounds like a familiar judgment call? :-)
I sometimes think that when struggles and conflicts arise in ones life it shows all the more how much we are cared and love dby the Divine Goddess ... or force. What do you think?
People often forget that the rise of the kundalini sets off samskaras to be exhausted? What do you think?
How do you embrace the ups and downs with an attitute of total balance and positivity at all times? I honestly have hardly seen any spiritualist in a total balanced state without any fluctuations. Therefore I wonder, what are your methods to surrender the results of your thoughts and deeds, creating the most positive outcome at all times.
Is it not a positive thing to try put one lesson into positive action rather than to hear many lessons and ideas of how one is not evolved enough to handle difficulties?I often hear words such as, he or she does so many years of practice and still has this or that afflictions!" sounds like a familiar judgment call? :-)
I sometimes think that when struggles and conflicts arise in ones life it shows all the more how much we are cared and love dby the Divine Goddess ... or force. What do you think?
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Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 1:43 AMhi, Carina --
it's a great series of questions. I think that spirituality, especially in America and particularly in California, where the New Age ideals are quite dominant, is severely misunderstood as this feel-good, blissful, positive, love and light rainbowfest that will make everybody whole overnight, soothe upset childhoods in a single wave of a magical wand, and relieve fear, anxiety, doubt, anger and control issues without anyone actually having to do any hard work.
yikes.
in my experience -- spirituality means purification. it means heat -- an inner heat generated by real spiritual processes (the yogic science of India, for example, or other related work from other traditions) that causes whatever impurities are in our systems to start being thrown off.
and the process of purification -- at least for me and the many many colleagues and students I've observed, over the years, burning in the same crucible I've lived in -- is not necessarily blissful, fun, peaceful, or entertaining.
when Jesus Christ said (it's in both the conventional gospels and the Gnostic gospels as well): "do you think I've come bringing peace!? I have not! I have come bringing fire, the sword, and war." he was referencing this very principle.
to someone educated in the ways of the Indian yogis - -it's obvious what Jesus was saying -- fire = purification, the sword = discrimination, the ability to tell Reality from Illusion, and war = war against the negative qualities, notably egoism.
conflict is a natural part of spiritual growth -- when a group of people are engaged in spiritual evolution together, they're ALL purifying at the same rate, more or less -- and their egoism will, at a certain stage, skyrocket. so will their kama (desire). that's a cocktail just designed for conflict -- walking ids bumping into one another and having differing opinions, needs, wants, etc.
I lived in an ashram for many years (mercifully we lived behind high walls -- to spare the rest of the world the craziness we would otherwise have all inflicted on it, I've no doubt!) and during this kind of purification phase. we were about 50 or so Western people, many of whom had never been exposed to high shakti and spiritual energy before, in this lifetime anyway, and we were like zoo inmates for about 2 solid years. acting, really, like hyperactive kindergarteners on speed.
why? purification. plain and simple.
you wrote:
"People often forget that the rise of the kundalini sets off samskaras to be exhausted? What do you think?"
yes, absolutely. or they don't forget -- no one bothered to explain this principle to them in detail. people somehow think kundalini just magically rises and they'll gain instant enlightenment.
yeah, right.
"How do you embrace the ups and downs with an attitute of total balance and positivity at all times? I honestly have hardly seen any spiritualist in a total balanced state without any fluctuations. Therefore I wonder, what are your methods to surrender the results of your thoughts and deeds, creating the most positive outcome at all times."
well, you learn how to walk upright, as a child, only after you've fallen down and skinned your knees dozens of times.
I'd love to say I have an attitude of total balance and positivity at all times -- !!!!!!! I'd like to say every serious spiritual person I've ever met has this attitude! even some of the saints I've met -- well, there are always ups and downs. even the avataras still have some human emotions, and human psychology -- they were born in the constraints/elements of the human body.
for myself, I can say this -- more and more I find that surrender is the only thing that keeps me laughing even when I'm angry. when I am alert enough to surrender, as completely as I can, to my guru lineage and to the Divine Mother, for throwing whatever challenge, whatever lila is coming my way -- and I'm grateful for it even while it chafes or irritates me -- then the challenge is still there, the potential for irritation is still there, but I don't care so much about the results of it all -- I've given them up and over to god.
that helps.
often I'll jump on a mantra when I notice I'm getting upset -- some illusion-breaking mantras in particular, that seem to slice through whatever negativity is playing around me. these help within seconds, usually.
being willing to admit I'm experiencing emotional tumult is also important -- if I can't own it, admit it, be honest about it with myself, how can I expect to wash it out of my system? and how can I expect god to help me if I won't be honest, myself, about my own shortcomings? so I have to admit it, 'hey, I'm really getting angry here, or thrown off by this situation, what can I do to fix it, to bring myself back to some kind of equanimity?'
finally, the moment I realize I'm losing it emotionally, or I'm in some conflict situation that I really don't like, or I'm acting in a way that I don't really want to (will regret it later), I thank my guru lineage, especially Shirdi Baba, my sadguru. sometimes I'm not too happy saying, "okay, you've got me AGAIN on this same issue, Maharaj!" and other times I'm laughing by the time I realize the set-up, the upset and the whole lila was of his making from the outset! either way, to throw it right back to god is important. then I'm not holding anything.
"Is it not a positive thing to try put one lesson into positive action rather than to hear many lessons and ideas of how one is not evolved enough to handle difficulties?I often hear words such as, he or she does so many years of practice and still has this or that afflictions!" sounds like a familiar judgment call? :-)"
well, it's always surprising, isn't it, when so-called 'spiritual people' are still acting unenlightened!?! especially if they're pretending to be something quite different from what is really going on in them. human foibles are one thing -- everyone blows it, sooner or later, we're all works in progress. hypocrisy, though, is entirely something else.
I think that's why humility is so so so key to spirituality -- if you can't really be humble about your frailties and mistakes, negative traits and secret desires -- you're wasting a lot of time and effort to spin your wheels and go nowhere.
in terms of taking a few spiritual principles and doing your best to put those into action, even though you may have other negative character traits -- of course of course, this is a good thing! we all start wherever we start, and any improvement or movement in a positive direction is better than none at all -- and over time, is bound to produce some more positive, beautiful effects. but it's challenging in the beginning stages.
"I sometimes think that when struggles and conflicts arise in ones life it shows all the more how much we are cared and love dby the Divine Goddess ... or force. What do you think? "
yes, I agree with you, from one angle. it's my experience that the struggles and conflicts are evidence of god(dess)'s love for us -- because god loves us so much, It's willing to help us purify quickly and intensely, rather than dragging out our samsaras/karmas over lifetimes.
it's like the school-teacher who sees immense promise in one student, and so may be a bit harsher or more demanding with that child, not out of a meanness of spirit, but because the teacher REALLY recognizes the potential the student has, and wants to help them develop it properly.
at the same time -- struggles and conflicts are also evidence of whatever mountains of karmas we've accumulated in past lifetimes and get to confront now. it's not fun, but it is a kind of fun, if you know what I mean.
the challenges are also an innocent mirror back to us of whatever we're carrying, in our heart, mind, soul, etc. -- Nature is always a mirror, just showing us whatever face back we show it, amplified. so if I'm in a black mood, everything around me will tend to be upset, moody, depressing or depressed. if I'm angry and cranky, people will come off to me angrily -- they just do! it's natural. when I'm joyous, people tend to show me happy faces. if I'm impatient, no doubt someone will yell at me for being in such a hurry! happens all the time, even with complete strangers. *grinning*
Nature is always listening and responding, and showing us -- often writ large -- exactly whatever we're showing to Nature. that's why exercising some control over our actions and emotions is a good idea.
it's also, then, the perfect opportunity to CHANGE our facial expression -- stop acting a certain way, drop the attachment or frustration, grief or anger or whatever it is, and start smiling instead. if I want to change the reflection in the mirror, I simply have to change my own expression, first..... and then see the beautiful, loving smile in the mirror of Nature!
Alx -
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 9:15 PMthank you for this amazingly beautiful answer, spoken from your heart, very touching, honest, and important.
Nature sure is wise... I sure prefer to be alone these days for sensibility reasons, relating to humans is one thing but releasing control, safety needs and needs for approval and affirmation are often setting off our inherent emotionality and need to control the outcome of a situation. To surrender those needs, I need to be partly be alone... yet the context of samgha helps for spiritual growth too as long as one can be honest in this samgha and psychological games are kept to a minimum.
Surrender sure is the key point...
Quote,"Complete surrender means constant occupation of mind with the Divine and accepting the pains and pleasures of life ungrudgingly (hard enough). It is becoming a machine in the hand of the Supreme and remaining cheerful in all the pains and pleasures of life, leaving everything to the Divine Source. “Clean or unclean, if one remembers the Guru (which is "Kundalinii" inside and not always a external figure) with devotion, he/she obtains effortlessly fulfillment in truth- life, wealth, desire and liberation.” (Kularnava Tantra)
Here I must say that in the practical behavior in the world is is wise to be a little careful and cautious because the realization of total unity is rare and almost all the people are under some kind of affliction, such as various complexes (fear, guilt, pride, vanity, anger) which they have not been able to conquer by spiritual practice yet. Without higher spiritual attainment, complete fearlessness, for instance, does easily come by easily. Realized persons are like lions. They do fear anything because that which creates fear seems to be conquered. Still, we can always try to face our fear with courage and melt them into nothing at the end through accepting ourselves as we are.
Till then why not invite the sense of humility... not being perfect is charming too.
Thank you dear, Alx for your post. I relate deeply to your anser.
Carina
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This post was deleted by Alx
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Sat, October 6, 2007 - 9:20 PMI tried to correct my post and douple posted by mistake... sorry - maybe one post can be removed... -
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Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 12:33 AMgot it, no problem. *grinning*
you wrote this:
"Realized persons are like lions. They do fear anything because that which creates fear seems to be conquered. Still, we can always try to face our fear with courage and melt them into nothing at the end through accepting ourselves as we are."
Carina, have you met any fully realized saints, or spent any significant time around them?
my observation, having been fortunate enough to know a few top level avataras during my life, is that their incredible fearlessness -- you're really right about that, that the highly realized souls are beyond fear in the normal sense of it -- is partly related to their unshakable confidence in the divine that flows through them, AND in their utter commitment to humility.
I haven't seen any real saints -- no matter how commanding and authoritarian they seem on the surface -- who don't also have a astounding reservoir of humility to match their apparent achievements.
it is one of the hardest qualities to maintain. when thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of people are grateful to you for your help, your love, your presence and your blessing, and constantly telling you (either verbally or by their actions) how great they think you are -- it is WAY too easy to let one's egoism run completely amok. if a holy person starts to believe their own hype, or the mythic qualities that people start attributing to them -- they will crash.
it is so so so so important to stay really humble, and remember exactly WHERE this great divine energy and connection to the cosmic is coming from -- it's not coming from that one individual, it is coming from their entire guru lineage and from god. god is the only one who heals, who blesses, who helps, who does the good works -- and god only should receive the credit for that.
thinking anything else -- even for a millisecond -- creates more seeds of more egoism and yikes, can they grow into weeds before you even realize it!
Alx -
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 8:54 AMI agree... just because one is a bit talented in the spiritual quest does not mena much. I certainly have spend much time around , yogis, avadhutas, even kapalikas... enough to notice that humility is often ( but not always) not part of the menu.
There is actually a certain charm and beauty in imperfection - or maybe there is perfection in imperfection {{{smile}}}
Who can say that a flower is not perfect? -
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Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Sun, October 7, 2007 - 1:26 PM>>I agree... just because one is a bit talented in the spiritual quest does not mena much.
especially Siddhis - it's just another skill to learn, like doing tricks on a skateboard or being a convincing public speaker.
>>There is actually a certain charm and beauty in imperfection - or maybe there is perfection in imperfection {{{smile}}}
the perceived imperfection is in fact perfection. don't give it a negative slant! everything is absolutely perfect. the only thing that occludes us from this is our ahamkaras.
>>Who can say that a flower is not perfect?
someone who does not have the predeliction towards flowers ;)
view the Corpse Flower.
is it not perfect?
is a Venus Flytrap evil?
nature is wonderful. we are all part of the cycle. our absurd ideas of morality have nothing to do with Mother. grind me up and make me compost. Hello, God. I accept you. You are all that has ever been and will always will be. eternity is right here and right now. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 7:20 PMI think, our spiritual evolution, which includes also conflict and clashes, etc. our minds will develop the power of compassion, conception, conceiving understanding, and with that developed conceiving force of understanding, we will know one another better and be more at peace with one another -eventually understand the universe better".
"Uni-verse" = "One-song". :-) = beautiful perfection!
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Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 12:19 AM"People often forget that the rise of the kundalini sets off samskaras to be exhausted?"
I am learning this through experience. The high energies that have activated in my life were at first, a souce of great suffering...at least that was what I once thought. Everything was turned upside down - I was being transformed quite intensely and I thought, unpleasantly. For some time I resisted the workings of kundalini and found even greater suffering, distress and even physical illness.
Finally, exhausted in my resistance, I surrendered and began to experience the fire of cosmic change as a blessing. I found that unhealthy relationships ended, my employment situation changed in ways which were far beyond my control, opportunities began to present themselves to follow a life path in harmony with Soul, avenues of service opened up before me, everything in my life continued transforming but I began to appreciate this process as a rebirth of sorts...some of it painful, some of it pleasant...all of it moving me toward wholeness.
I simply stopped resisting. -
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Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 3:57 AM"I simply stopped resisting. "
Probably the key, right there. Once Kundalini is awakened, all we really need to do is get out of the way - easier said than done, of course, as we are so used to our old conditioning, the voice of the ego, of separation. Shakti only burns the old, all She seeks is what is always true, in this or any other moment.
What is true, in this moment? What is it that is real, and does not change? If we can't trust *that*, we are in big trouble! So, learning to trust, to have faith in this process, to stop resisting and just let go - that is the way forward. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 10:29 AMtrust is indeed a big issue for some. When life takes an unexpected turn at times it is the hardest for many people to remain positive and in the wisdom realm.
One has to be alone at times to understand what is us and what is them (outside-which is also inside... yes...). How often are we keeping positive inspite of unwanted events in life? Are we being held responsible for other people's problems, their negativity.... (which may partly be ours if we let them reflect into or mental plate).
We can only own our process and be responsible for whatever happens to us in life, and totally embreace ourselves as we are is a must.
Sometimes we may have to choose to be positive for others as well for if w would decide to let ourselves fall into their reactions, we would do our own spirit a disservice.
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Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 12:47 PM*grinning at B and Torrey*
I wanted to have buttons made saying, "Surrender Now! Avoid The Rush!" because I realized that holding on to ANYTHING creates suffering. letting it go, for real -- suffering gone!
Alx -
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 1:32 PMLetting go/holding on ... could be two parts of one coin.
Letting go of negative sentiments, constucts it is one thing and "letting go" sure eases suffering.
Letting go of your kids, or relatives... is a harder one. It all depends on the right timing and how it is done and with what intention.
Maybe there is something good in the right amount of letting go and holding on.... Without holding on there would not be a family life, no relationship, nothing.
Holding on to the feet of the inner Guru, Divine Mother, your Inner Guide, your Ista Devata, name it... can be of great help overcomming narrow sentiments and afflictions.
Even the river does not flow without the gravity of the earth holding things together. Even the wind and the clouds are influenced by gravity of the nucleus of the core of the earth to unfold their "letting go." Even the universe may have a nucleus holding the stars together.
Letting go is sometimes an easy way out to not having to take responsibility for once creations. On a deeper level, yes "letting go" of the outcome it is the answer but on the practical level - not always.
For instance, socially it is wise to have a sense of justice, especially when in leadership positions such as being a moderator... privately one can dislike a participant... still it is wise to have a sense of justice... holding on being a moderator is helpful as being the nucleus, letting go of sentiments towards a member of tribe... is certainly wise... in order to help participants to develop further.
Much wisdom and patience is required to do the right acts free of limiting narrow sentiments when overcoming clashes.
yours,
Carina -
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Unsu...
Re: Why Does Spiritual Evolution at times invite Conflict, Kleshas?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 6:46 PMToday my airplane had trouble coping... there was much sweating and the kids cried...
Anyway... "letting go here" is a very different sort of letting go.
Jai Ma!
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